The Ecumenical Council

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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Kingdom of Calabria on Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:09 pm

Đorđe Nenadovič: "Philotheos, I do not make the suggestion lightly. Indeed he does deserve forgiveness, and by the Grace of God we will give it to him freely. But his actions, and his inent, have shown that he cannot be a Steward of the Orthodoxy. Forgiveness is one thing, leading the Lambs of The Church is another matter altogether. I do not propose excommunication, as such a drastic action is uncalled for in Vasilis' case. But, Brothers, heed my call; for I have seen this before in my Serbian homelands. The Bogomils preached the same and their infiltration became almost complete. They chose those passages of Scripture which supported inly their violent and harmful ways. We must cut the wicked and sickly branch before our whole tree becomes infirmed."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Byzantine_Bithynia on Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:31 pm

Origines Artirius

Brothers, I am completely against any sort of genocide - even against pagans and heretics. We must show the people that we are better than both the Catholics and pagan warlords alike. Should we convert the people through peaceful means, it will make more and more people follow suit and convert to the true faith. Should we slaughter those who do not follow the true faith, can we really expect anyone to convert? They will fight us because they will see us as evil, and will not convert but rather fight to protect their ways.

Vasilis, you are correct when you say that the church moved against the Bogumils, but it did not commit genocide. The Greek forces that arrived told the people that if they are peaceful, they would not be forced to convert. If they had landed and slaughtered the Bogumils, would we expect any of them to convert to our ways? No, they would have fought even harder. As it stands, we have let those who are peaceful be, and sent men of faith to preach and convert. I have heard that this process is going well in the Bithynian controlled land taken in the campaign against the heretics. If people are treated fairly they will be all the more likely to convert to our ways. Kill them mercilessly, and they shall only fight to defend the ways we do not wish them to follow.

As for the matter of Vasilis' spot on the council, this is a matter we must not take lightly. It could have large ramifications, and I'm not sure it is the right course of action at the moment.

Paulus Eutychios

Removing a member of the council would be a quite drastic action indeed, though as with anything, the vote shall determine what is to happen. As it stands, Patriarch Nenadovic is in favor of this, while Philotheos and Vasilis are against it.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Aegyptus on Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:16 pm

Philotheos

"I shall remain neutral on this matter until further evidence subject of Vasilis' guilt is presented. Though I admit his way is.. unpleasant, to say the least, it does not make any sense to remove him blindly." It was clear that Philotheos was restraining himself.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Azaq on Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:56 am

Vasilis Michelakis

Vasilis scoffed.

"I am guilty of following the righteous path, and nothing more."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Byzantine_Bithynia on Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:03 am

A soldier entered into the council chambers during the discussions, and spoke something to Paulus, who excused himself briefly. Sometime later, he would again leave and then return. It was clear something was on his mind. He stood up, cleared his throat, and spoke.

"Brothers...I have news I must tell you. I have received a letter informing me of something quite unsettling." Paulus paused, clearly thinking of what to say.

"It has come to my attention that Patriarch Vasilis has been leading a group of his Orthodox followers in Azaq...who recently...were ordered by him to attack and rape the eldest daughter of the Khan. This has been confirmed by the Khan himself. It would appear, Vasilis, that you are guilty of more than following the righteous path...indeed it would seem that claim is false."

"Vasilis, what do you have to say in your defense?"

As he spoke, and unbeknownst to the council, a group of soldiers quietly gathered outside of the chambers.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Cybelos on Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:39 am

"You see what this violence gets us? We'll be hardpressed to spread the Orthodoxy in Azaq now. As you said yourself Vasilis, this is the Eastern Church, you may have just condemned this church from spreading the true faith any further east. What good could you have hoped would come from this? We'll need to work incredibly hard to get in the Khan's graces again. He's tolerated us in his lands for now, let us hope he does not banish or worse, kill the Orthodox Christians in his land as retribution."

"Perhaps the people of Vasilis' flock can be dissuaded from further violence. They may have been convinced that their actions were the will of God, word from the ecumenical patriarch calling for them to instead help the downtrodden may improve relationships."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Byzantine_Bithynia on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:15 am

Origines spoke up. "Yes, that would likely help. I think this does also bring new light upon the vote to banish him from this council. Ordering thugs to rape and beat someone for what, not agreeing with our faith? Not only that, but you choose the daughter of the Azaqi Khan who has been tolerant towards us? Tolerant towards you. I'd imagine now he wants your head on a stick, and I doubt he is any more in favor of the true faith now.

Paulus also spoke, "There is more to this than I've said...not only did they rape her, but she was pregnant at the time...and this caused a miscarriage of the unborn child."

Paulus paused, clearly holding himself back.

"I am meant to preside over this council, and to make sure all runs smoothly. It is not my place to take sides unless a tie takes place, but I will be honest - it is very hard to remain impartial in this matter."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Cybelos on Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:10 am

"Unbelievable. You wish to gain reverence for the church through immortality, Vasilis? You'll damn this entire church if the people of the faith believe themselves righteous in their sin. You have already disrespected the word of Christ himself once during this council, the actions performed under your instruction are reprehensible and you are not doing the church a service as you seem to believe."

"Send him to the Khan in chains, he's violated him and his family after all. Let him be the judge of what shall become of him. Perhaps we can make this seem a political move by Vasilis and him alone against the Khan and his power instead of a justification to the Khan for a genocide or a holy war."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Aegyptus on Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:58 am

"Vasilis, your true nature has been discovered.' Philotheos would stare at him disdainfully. "Not only have you strayed from peace and respect, but you have also destroyed progress in Azaq. I believe we'll be lucky if any of the Orthodox followers survive.

I am absolutely for banishing this... man from the council."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Varasd on Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:19 am

Theodosius

The deeds of Vasilis are not only against our mission in Azaq! If word spreads about this, our chances for converting anyone will suffer.

If my King, Zvonimir hears about the atrocities orthodox christians have committed in Azaq, a nation close and in friendly terms with Varasd, he might intervene in the matters of the Church, and stand against Orthodoxy.

If he will turn against us, Varasd will form a wall through which we will have a very hard time trying to reach out for the rest of Europe.

However, Vasilis has great influence in Azaq. If we banish him, he will simply continue to work there and use his followers for his own, twisted servitude of God... We better use his influence, or take more drastic measures - banishing him could lead to even bigger problems.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Cybelos on Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:44 am

Let us not act the fool. I'm saying send Vasilis back to Azaq in bonds, his crimes against the Khan will be answered for.

As for spreading the religion, the Greco-Romans own the port of Venice and control the seas, land is not our only option for spreading the faith.

And as I said, Brother Theodosius, the Ecumenical Patriarch can control the Orthodoxy, and if they choose not to listen and consider his words, they are not truly of the faith.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Kingdom of Calabria on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:44 pm

Đorđe Nenadovič: "Brother Lysander has the key to this matter.  Let us banish him from our Council before he brings his war-dogs upon the Orthodoxy.  Let us extradite this...this creature to Azaq in chains.  Show him to the Kahn in a cage, like the animal that he is.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Varasd on Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:17 pm

Theodosius

Indeed. I also support this motion - he must answer for his crimes, his judge shall be Khan Ganbataar on Earth, and God in the afterlife.

On the subject of spreading the faith, the only thing I am implying is that we should not make enemies from those neutral. Instead of us approaching certain monarchs, creating a conflict between them and the Roman church could be easier, maybe.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Azaq on Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:23 pm

Vasilis said nothing since the accusation. He merely glared at the Ecumenical Patriarch, unrelenting. He did not blink once and his face was blank. Finally he arose from his seat, picked it up, and chucked it in Paulus' direction. Regaining a calm composure, he clenched his fists and began his rant.

"You would have us bend over like sodomites, and let the devil's children rape us from behind. ALL of you would. You are WEAK and GOD does not need WEAK MEN representing his will. The heathens and the heretics, they are the voices of Satan, the agents of Satan, and they would have us all slaughtered...

...And so we must slaughter them first. Our righteous fury gives us the power to push back the hordes of sinners and blasphemers! GOD IS ON OUR SIDE, BROTHERS! We cannot fail, the devil's followers will be purged and we must be the ones to purge them. There is no innocence in heathens, for they have given up their humanity to Lucifer. They must be stopped. They must ALL be stopped. God has spoken to me, and he has told me the truth. The time for peace is not today, nor tomorrow. We are on the brink of destruction. It started when Rome fell, and then when the Church of the East collapsed, when Christianity failed in the Eastern World - in Turkestan, in Hindustan, in Persia, in the Holy Land - when we lost Jerusalem... WHEN YOU LOST JERUSALEM. The WEAK men who claim to follow the righteous path.

Time and time again we have lost land to heathens and heretics, and now the one church is split into three. The dying Church of the East, whose adherents have been reduced to the point that there might not even be any left outside of Azaq. The Catholic Church, whose corruption is world-renowned, and is incapable of handling barbarian Norsemen and Bogomil heretic scum. And lastly, the Orthodox Church, which is too cowardly to take the faith and ascend it to the power it deserves.

You are all heretics, your zeal and righteousness as fictional as your bravery. God has given me the guidance necessary to restore the one church to power, to rule the world as it should, to battle the armies of Satan! And you will stand in the way of my righteous cause? Then you will burn, with the sinners, the blasphemers, the sodomites, the infidels, the heretics, the demons, the barbarians, the heathens. You will all burn in the fiery lakes of HELL. But not I, not those who follow me, for my words are just and my cause righteous. GOD will see me through, like Christ, I will be persecuted until emerging once more - more powerful than before - to spread the truth against the wicked.

Go and lick the cocks of your Saracen husbands, while I lay siege to your false-comings with an army of pious warriors!"
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Byzantine_Bithynia on Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:41 am

Paulus was clearly angered by what Vasilis had said, but said nothing as he spoke. Finally, when vasilis was done, Paulus took a deep breath and stood.

"Vasilis, do you not have even a shred of respect for anyone? Do you care for nothing but power? It is no matter. I must now make a difficult desicion, one I hoped I would never have to make, using authority I never wanted to use. But it has come to this."

"Vasilis, you have committed sinful crimes in the name of the Lord. You attempt to justify this with ramblings about the devil and heathens."

As he spoke, soldiers entered the room from two entrances, numbering 20.

"Vasilis, you are hereby stripped of your title as patriarch, and are under arrest for your crimes."

The soldiers approached, and seized Vasilis, the rest surrounding him. Another soldier then entered the room, clearly of higher rank, and stood beside the Ecumenical Patriarch.

"Captain, bring Vasilis to the prison." Paulus told the soldier, who nodded, and ordered his men to carry out the order.

They would drag Vasilis to the prison, where he would await his fate.

After all was said and done, Paulus addressed the council once again.

"I am sorry it had come to this, brothers. I want to make it clear that doing this was not something I did lightly, and I will not take such an action again unless we have a similarly problematic situation. Now, we must decide what is to be done with the man. As I had previously said, his crimes were confirmed by the Khan, who I sent a letter to, and he said it would be best we dealt with him on our own, and that what he would do to him would 'frighten even the most evil of demons.' He did not say anything about him hating our church, merely vasilis. So, brothers, what shall be done with this man?"
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Cybelos on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:47 am

"I do not believe murder is the answer here, less word reach those who had followed Vasilis' commands. Perhaps we should cut out his tongue so he can no longer spread such villainous speech? If any of you have any other ideas, I believe we should hear them.

Hmm, there is a monastery in my Kingdom, Mt. Athos. It is isolated from the rest of the world, perhaps it would give him a chance to reflect. I do fear however that he would only lash out against us if we are too lenient with his fate."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Kingdom of Calabria on Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:03 am

Đorđe Nenadovič: "Cut out his tounge and give it to the Kahn as proof we have dealt with the matter. What should we do with the man, assuming he survives the ordeal? Send him to live among the Jews he so very much despises."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by House of Judah on Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:38 am

Kingdom of Calabria wrote:Đorđe Nenadovič: "Cut out his tounge and give it to the Kahn as proof we have dealt with the matter.  What should we do with the man, assuming he survives the ordeal? Send him to live among the Jews he so very much despises."
Matthias Ioannidis

"He will have a short enough life span if he is sent to Judea. Yitzchak has little patience for rapists, and men who have commissioned others to rape in so foul a manner he will surely have a shorter temper with. It may seem unchristian of me, but if we are to see him to his end, then let it be here and now. Say he went on his rants, suffered a fit and died here on the floor, that God heard his deranged ramblings and smote him on the spot."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Byzantine_Bithynia on Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:00 am

Origines laughed at Nenadovic's suggestion.

"That would be quite funny though, imagine him just sat there having to listen to all the jews and not being able to say a word..."

"In all seriousness, I'd say we cut out his tongue. In fact, I saw we cut out his tongue so he can't speak, and blind him so he can't write - at least not very well. I doubt he'd be ordering anymore attacks in such a state."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Cybelos on Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:43 am

"I agree with Matthias, if he is a prisoner of Constantinople then let us dispose of him in a way that benefits us and doesn't cause any trouble with the mislead Orthodoxy of Azaq.

He was blaspheming God, speaking in the tongue of the devil, so we removed his tongue. He looked upon the visage of Christ with his eyes and saw an opportunity to exploit our God, so we removed his eyes. For his insolence and for leading God's children astray God had struck him down with the sword of righteous men.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Varasd on Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:06 am

Theodosius

Brothers, I agree with the proposals. Blind and without a tongue, he shall pose no danger to our Church. What we need to learn is, how many more like him are there in Azaq, and around the world?

Maybe if we cut the head off this dragon, another three will grow. Who was his second-in command, his right hand, in Azaq? Those people might use his punishment to push their agenda, and we might lose our orthodox brothers in Azaq.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Azaq on Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:30 pm

Suddenly a faint knock was heard on the door, and a rather sheepish and elderly gentleman dressed in Bishop robes entered the room.

"Ah, apologies, patriarchs. Excuse my lack of invitation, I only wished to make sure that my letter was well received- Ah, forgive my manners. My name is Photios, Photios Raptis, Bishop of Theodosia. I am the one who sent the letter regarding Vasilis Michelakis, which I am assuming you got, yes?

I pardon my intrusion, Brothers of the Cross, but the Khan of Azaq did not wish to wait on the letter and sent me here the day after it left. You, uh, did get the letter, I take it? Again, I apologize for intruding, but I have never had much faith - or luck - with lettering, and it would not be wise to refuse Ganbaatar Khan. You understand, I am sure? If I am not welcome I will take leave at once, I understand these are private chambers and all, and do not wish to take up your time or hears things that I should perhaps not hear."

Photios was clearly nervous.
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Cybelos on Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:16 am

Welcome, Brother. I am Patriarch Lysander of Athens. I suppose it is somewhat of a good sign having you here, the Khan must not see what had happened as the crime of the Orthodoxy then, just Vasilis. You've heard of his crimes then, what do you believe should be done with Vasilis?
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Azaq on Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:12 pm

Cybelos wrote:Welcome, Brother. I am Patriarch Lysander of Athens. I suppose it is somewhat of a good sign having you here, the Khan must not see what had happened as the crime of the Orthodoxy then, just Vasilis. You've heard of his crimes then, what do you believe should be done with Vasilis?

"Oh, yes, yes. The Khan knows better than to blame the whole faith for the acts of a few. I assure you, most of the Orthodox faithful are true followers and believers. Virgins, if you will, unsullied by Vasilis and his misguided beliefs. His followers are more limited to Chersonisos, though they do not constitute all of the Orthodox population there.

As for punishment, well, I wouldn't be the one to ask about that, you see. He has committed blasphemy, yes, and his words are heretical, but one might consider my idea of 'punishment' too lenient, perhaps? I suppose if I must, I would suggest simple excommunication and imprisonment. This will not silence him, perhaps, but it would prevent him from gaining new supporters, I imagine.

His words won't be able to extend outside his cell, though. Solitary confinement would perhaps be best. Of course, I think we should do as the Lord would wish and seek his repentance first. I... doubt he will, but it could not hurt to try? Perhaps I put too much faith in him, or perhaps I am just a foolish old man, but I simply have a distaste for something such as execution or physical and mental harm of any kind. If he will not repent, let him suffer alone, without pain, I say.

Of course, it is not up to me, and it doesn't matter what we- *ahem* You, do to him, for his true punishment will be given by God, undoubtedly."
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Re: The Ecumenical Council

Post by Cybelos on Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:31 am

Yes, continuing with that, let us conclude this humiliation that the former patriarch had brought upon the church. What had we all agreed on? Imprisonment and the removal of his tongue? Anything further than that?
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