Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

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Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Hellas on Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:56 am

Seeing as I was trying to think of ways to create the conditions for the Great Schism I thought I might as well create a topic where we can all bounce ideas off one another!

My idea for the Schism was going to be slightly based on the Norman invasion of Sicily, the idea is A Cybelosian Duke trying to earn favor with the Roman church would dispose of all Greek standard bishops and replace them with Latin standard bishops hoping that in time one of his bishops would be nominated for the papacy, and seeing as the Duke would have been responsible his family would be granted favors by the Pope if he was elected.

The churches would preach the Latin word but the people and the disposed bishops would preach the Greek word leading to confusion.
The King of Cybelos in a fervor after being lamented to by the multiple Greek bishops would close all Latin churches in the Dukedom leading to a papal advisor visiting and giving a letter of excommunication, the church of Cybelos (Orthodox) would in turn excommunicate the Pope leading to a Great Schism between East and West with Greek influenced churches looking to Constantinople(?) and Roman influenced churches looking to (you guessed it...) Rome.

This is my initial idea, so I'd appreciate some feedback/criticism, thanks! And, of course, you are all welcome to use this topic for feedback on your own projects, similarly! Wink
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by House of Judah on Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:25 am

That could work, but hasn't Alexander already given his loyalty to Rome on that front?  It wouldn't seem to track for him to suddenly switch sides (or at least it that's my read on it).  Maybe it could begin by dividing your realm between the dukes that favor Rome and the dukes that favor Constantinople, eventually forcing the king to pick a side?  At that point, if the stronger more influential dukes have turned to Constantinople, the king might go that way to hold onto their loyalty.

For myself, I've been working steadily on developing the religion portion of my factbook (believe me, that is quite the project). I may start uploading portions of it while I work on the rest. In the meantime, one of the religious sects that I plan to discuss (even if at least for now they are not a significant presence) is a sect of Christianity that still adopts many Jewish practices (essentially Messianic Judaism, though that movement didn't emerge until the 20th Century). I'm having trouble figuring out what to call it. The most historically accurate one I can find is Judaizers, but that really is more of a pejorative. Jewish Christian, Hebrew Christians or Judeo-Christians could also work, but they just don't quite sound right to me. There was the sect of Nazarenes, but I already have my guard (I'll probablu still say that the current sect evolved out of the Nazarenes). Anyone have any suggestions on what to name it?
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Hellas on Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:59 am

Well, he didn't swear fealty to Rome.  The conditions for the crown were ceding the right of investiture, allowing monasteries and bishops to pay support to the church directly, and no heathens shall be granted nobility or knighthood. Does that mean I gave my loyalty to Rome? IC I wouldn't think so, and if there was ever a crusade I was planning on him bs'ing his way out/giving as little as possible. I like the civil war-lite idea, I think I'll try to use that. (I don't want a Gepidae situation on my hands though...)

As for some Jewish-Christian name ideas: Masoretes, Tanakhites (or Tanachites)?
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by House of Judah on Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:29 am

Pretty sure the Masoretes were Karaites.  Tanakhites maybe, but that sounds off to me.  I've done some more digging.  Mosaic (Moses) Christianity could work as they maintain the Laws of Moses (to an extent, sacrifice is no longer required because Christ has already been sacrificed for their sins, which was the main purpose for the ritual sacrifices anyways).  Also could do Baahites, from the Hebrew baah, meaning "has come", since part of the myth of the Mashiach (Messiah) is that he will bring Ha'olam Haba (The World to Come).  Neither sound quite right to me still, but I've got time before I plan to do anything with them, so I'm still open (and eager) for suggestions.
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Hellas on Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:51 am

Yehudites,Sinaites,Genesians (from Genesis, don't know if that would be the right word)
Yehudite Christianity, Sinaite Christianity, Genesian Christianity?
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Varasd on Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm

Well, since the King of Cybelos has ceded his right of investiture to the pope, it basically means that he can not pick and nominate bishops on his own. If a Bishop in Cybelos dies or resigns, the Pope would instantly nominate a latin bishop in his place. Same goes for monasteries, actually.
All your bishops are belong to Rome!

Maybe the conflict could come out of this, that your king wants his rights of investiture back? Or the greek priests and bishop-nominees, and monastery leaders are against the investiture of the Pope, and want the King to get his right of investiture back.

Also, just a hint... Church-law wise, the only one who can challenge a pope's authority is an Emperor. Since the Byzantine Emperor used to be head of the Church as well, IF you form an Empire, the Emperor would not be bound by the restrictions of the Church.


As for the new religion... maybe Yeshuist? Coming from Yeshua, which means Jesus, I believe. I don't know much jewish. Sad
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Hellas on Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:02 pm

That's perfect, the pope would start appointing latin bishops and priests to the positions that had been killed in the north by the bogomils and once the dust settles we'll be left with a Catholic north vs. a Greek south.
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Varasd on Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:04 pm

Cybelos wrote:That's perfect, the pope would start appointing latin bishops and priests to the positions that had been killed in the north by the bogomils and once the dust settles we'll be left with a Catholic north vs. a Greek south.

Yup! Not to mention you have a seat of a patriach in Alexandria. They would be either coptic or orthodox too!
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Hellas on Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:03 pm

Varasd wrote:Yup! Not to mention you have a seat of a patriach in Alexandria. They would be either coptic or orthodox too!

Well... Almost, I have the Suez region, not the Nile Delta YET!
I'm going to try to play the two "dark skinned" characters I introduced in the Judean Prince RP into it, they're going to be 'Lords' of Damietta (Tamiathis)
But, I'm not sure if they should be defecting members of a caliphate in the region or if Africa should be a collection of city-states...
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Hellas on Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:07 pm

Hey, cool world event idea: Africa/Bit of Spain becomes a warmongering caliphate thus calling for a crusade. (I just want control of the mouth of the Mediterranean Wink )
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Kingdom of Calabria on Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:03 am

jewish christian name idea: The Halenthropians, being an amalgamation of the greek words "halieis anthrōpōn" meaning "fishers of men".
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by House of Judah on Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:22 pm

Cybelos wrote:
Varasd wrote:Yup! Not to mention you have a seat of a patriach in Alexandria. They would be either coptic or orthodox too!

Well... Almost, I have the Suez region, not the Nile Delta YET!
I'm going to try to play the two "dark skinned" characters I introduced in the Judean Prince RP into it, they're going to be 'Lords' of Damietta (Tamiathis)
But, I'm not sure if they should be defecting members of a caliphate in the region or if Africa should be a collection of city-states...
We could say Alexandria is in the hands of infidels and the Patriarch retreated to land that was at least Christianized.  As for Africa, I want the Kingdom of Semien to still be in place.  It's not on the map, but it would tickle me for that to be there.

Calabrian Republic wrote:jewish christian name idea: The Halenthropians, being an amalgamation of the greek words "halieis anthrōpōn" meaning "fishers of men".
Varasd wrote:As for the new religion... maybe Yeshuist? Coming from Yeshua, which means Jesus, I believe. I don't know much jewish Hebrew. Sad
Both of those could work really well.

For the record, Jesus is the anglicized form of the Greek transliteration Iesous from Yeshua, which is a contraction of Yehoshua which is the Hebrew form of Joshua.


Last edited by House of Judah on Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Byzantine_Bithynia on Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:15 pm

As for the schism, if people in Greece were to look to Constantinople I imagine the church in Rome would be somewhat unhappy, given that Constantinople has made pretty much zero efforts to even communicate with them as of yet. So that could probably drive it a little further if that were to happen.
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by House of Judah on Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:02 am

I've had an additional idea as well as something for the region to do, which can be coupled with something I've noticed. Here's the idea:

Anyone who is taking a look may note that we really don't have a merchant republic at the moment. Yes, there was Caspiatana, but they have CTE'd. Calabria styles itself a republic, but it just doesn't quite have that flavor (if you'll pardon me saying so, Cal, it really does seem to be more of a feudal realm so far). My thought is maybe we add a single county merchant republic to the map and each of us gets to have a patrician household within the republic. Each house gets to control a single seat in the republic's senate, and whatever house controls the Doge has an additional seat for his august personage (that advantage disappears during a Ducal election). The senate elects the Doge, who in turn can appoint the councilors who help run the republic, but only on confirmation by the senate. Different houses can be given different advantages and hindrances which they can use to advance their respective goals (not every one necessarily wants to be the Doge, some might rather be part of the power behind the thrown).

As for where to put it, looking at the map it seems to not have Venezia (Venice). Plop an island there at the deep end of the Gulf of Venice (the inner most portion of the Adriatic Sea) and we can set it up there. Alternately, we could set up Firenze in control of Tuscany and Pisa. Just an idea I had. Obviously for what I'm proposing it would be a little more structured than the more free form way we've been handling things so far, but I think it's worth exploring.
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Kingdom of Calabria on Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:31 am

Hahahaha, you called me "Cal". yeah no offense taken; full pardon granted. i was thinking the same thing about my own realm, and that sooner or later I'm going to have to apply for a kingdom from the pope. makes more sense with the style that's coming out of my territories.

but as it relates to your idea: that sounds neat, and i think that'd be interesting, but i think for it to be fully fleshed out we'd have to set up rules for economics. otherwise i think it'd be more of just a Forum Topic than an actual place on the map.
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by Varasd on Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:31 am

I like the idea of the Merchant Republic a lot!

I'll post a poll and a separate discussion thread for it, how it should be made, etc.

I think that everyone should either have a separate forum account for the houses, or we should just simply make a pinned list of who controls which family.
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Re: Forum - Get Assistance with Your Projects

Post by House of Judah on Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:14 pm

I've made a Judean Name Generator to help me generate random Judean names (I don't always have the time to come up with meanings for every one). I'm also making this available to others who want to generate Judean characters. Just follow the directions to the side and the generator will put out 50 Judean names.
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